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% ANSWERS THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT WHY CAPITALISM IS IMMORAL AND ROMANS 13
% DOESN'T REQUIRE OBEDIENCE TO THE GOVERNMENT.  CAPITALISM COMMANDED (OR
% NOT) BY GOD.

Ecks: "Reverend, do you take Captain Mercuriou's 'conversion'
seriously?"

Zee: "No I do not.  He has switched from theft to insurrection, not
from the Devil to Christ.  We are taught that government authority is
consituted by God."

Mercuriou: "Where that is taught by Christ?"

Zee: "Romans 13, it's taught in Romans 13, Captain:"

"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for
there is no authority except that which God has established."

Mercuriou: "That's a letter of Paul.  I asked for Christ."

Zee: "It's in the Bible!  If you don't believe in the Bible, you're
no Christian!"

Mercuriou: "I am a Christian, not a Biblian."

Zee: "The Bible is the inspired word of God.  You're no Christian!"

Mercuriou: "I take the Bible seriously, not literally.  Paul was the
greatest misionary in the history of the church, but he was not
Christ.  He knew God, but he didn't come back from the dead.  His
teachings don't have the same weight, that's why we don't print them
in red.  I don't buy Romans 13.  Jews in Nazi Germany had a moral
obligation to wear yellow stars?  Because it was the law?  Because
their leaders were established by God?"

Zee: "A dictatorship..."

Mercuriou: "No, Paul didn't say that.  He didn't say that our
obligation to obey the laws depended on the form of government!  There
is nothing in Christ's teachings which gives us some moral obligation
to obey every law promulgated by any government.  In fact, one of the
main themes of _Revelation_ is the presence in this world of
governments that are _not_ ordained by God.  Do Cubans have a moral
obligation not to criticize their government?"

Zee paused for a moment and collected his thoughts.  What had
happened?  Had he in fact converted?

Zee: "So, government is evil; people should do whatever they please?"

Mercuriou: "No, but our _moral_ obligation is not to obey the laws of
government, but to obey the laws of God!"

Zee: "And if you decide the laws are unjust, then you take it upon
yourself to ignore them?"

Mercuriou: "Yes.  That's what people did in Russia, that's what people
did in Germany.  That's what people did here in 1776!  That's what
Rosa Parks did in 1960!"

Zee: "Rosa Parks was a brave woman, and it is true that some laws are
unjust.  Yet this isn't Russia, and this isn't Germany!  We have
freedom in this country, and respect for our laws!  Part of the law of
God is obedience to legitimate, constituted authority!"

Mercuriou: "So now we're going to 'interpret' Romans 13, eh?  What's this
distinction between legitimate and illegitimate government?"

Zee: "Legitimate government is Godly government."

% Mercuriou paused.

Mercuriou: "That I'll agree with.  I'll also say that legitimate
leadership, of any kind, is Godly leadership."

% Zee: That is a socialist philosophy!  or  That sounds like socialism!

% Mercuriou: Is it?  Isn't any form of leadership legitimate only if it
% is inspired by God?

% Now Zee paused.

Zee: "And I'll agree with that."

Mercuriou: "So is capitalism Godly?"

Zee: "Capitalism is _commanded_ by God!  The civil magistrate has a
God-given duty as a minister of justice, and is not to exceed that
duty!"

Mercuriou: "I'm not talking about the government!  I'm talking about
the man who owns the restaurant!  Is it Godly to deny a man food if he
comes to the door hungry!"

Zee: "Send him to a food bank and support it with charity."

Mercuriou: "Why not feed him yourself?  After all, you're running a
restaurant!"

Zee: "Because we are not socialists!  You have no right to tell that
man who he has to serve!"

Mercuriou: "No, I don't have that right.  But Christ did!  He said
'give to all those who beg of you'!  It's the only _Godly_ response,
and therefore the only legitimate leadership!"



Mercuriou: "Is a government dominated by capitalists legitimate?  How
can it be?  How can a government of communists be legitimate?
Communism is a _atheist_ philosophy!  How can atheists run a Godly
government?  It's almost impossible, unless they never apply their
atheist beliefs to any decisions they make!  Likewise for capitalism;
it's _immoral_!  No capitalist government can be legitimate; it's
_impossible_!"


Mercuriou: "We're done talking!  There's nothing left to talk about!
We've talked about this over and over and over again!  The majority of
the people of this country are determined to have capitalism!  It is a
Godless and wicked philosophy!  There is nothing legitimate about
these people or their leaders and no election can change that!  But
this time nobody can say it's a dictatorship!  Nobody can say there
wasn't freedom of speech!  Nobody can say we don't have a free press!
Capitalism is what the majority of the people of this country want!
And those of us who oppose had better get out!"





Zee: "This isn't the Will of God!  You're a bunch of druggies!  This
isn't the Will of God!  You're a bunch of druggies!"

Zee seemed stuck on re-re-repeat, so Ecks switched him to the standby
track.

"Well, Captain, you'll be in a prison cell by tomorrow afternoon.  I'm
sure that your plans for Hawaiian secession will go the way of the
Republic of Mars."

Mercuriou: "Check the best seller charts, Ecks.  You don't even know
how well the Republic will do yet."
@


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Mercuriou: "Can you show me where that is taught by Christ?"
d22 2
a23 1
Zee: "So you don't believe in the Bible?"
d25 1
a25 1
Mercuriou: "I'm a Christian, not a Biblian."
d27 1
a27 2
Zee: "Well, the Bible is the inspired word of God.  If you don't
believe that, you're no Christian!"
d133 2
a134 2
"This isn't the Will of God!  You're a bunch of druggies!  This isn't
the Will of God!  You're a bunch of druggies!"
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@d24 1
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Mercuriou: [after a deep breath]  "I'm a Christian, not a Biblian."
d105 1
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"give to all those who beg of you"!  It's the only _Godly_ response,
@


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@d2 3
a4 3
ANSWERS THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT WHY CAPITALISM IS IMMORAL AND ROMANS 13
DOESN'T REQUIRE OBEDIENCE TO THE GOVERNMENT.  CAPITALISM COMMANDED (OR
NOT) BY GOD.
d6 2
a7 1
Ecks cut past any introduction.
d9 1
a9 4
Ecks: Reverend, do you take Captain Mercuriou's 'conversion'
seriously?

Zee: No I do not.  He has switched from theft to insurrection, not
d11 1
a11 2
consituted by God [and that we have a moral duty to obey that
authority].
d13 1
a13 1
[ Mercuriou: Can you show me where that is taught by Christ?
d15 1
a15 1
[ Zee: Romans 13, it's taught in Romans 13, Captain:
d17 2
a18 2
    Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for
    there is no authority except that which God has established.
d20 1
a20 1
Mercuriou: That's a letter of Paul.  I asked for Christ.
d22 1
a22 1
Zee: So you don't believe in the Bible?
d24 1
a24 1
Mercuriou: (after a deep breath)  I'm a Christian, not a Biblian.
d26 2
a27 2
Zee: Well, the Bible is the inspired word of God.  If you don't
believe that, you're no Christian!
d32 4
a35 3
teachings don't have the same weight, and I don't buy Romans 13.  Jews
in Nazi Germany had a moral obligation to wear yellow stars?  Because
it was the law?  Because their leaders were established by God?"
d37 1
a37 1
Zee: A dictatorship...
d39 1
a39 1
Mercuriou: No, Paul didn't say that.  He didn't say that our
d45 1
a45 1
obligation not to criticize their government?
d47 2
a48 2
[ Zee paused for a moment and collected his thoughts.  What had
[ happened?  He hadn't expected Andrea Yeats.
d50 1
a50 1
Zee: So, government is evil; people should do whatever they please?
d52 2
a53 2
Mercuriou: No, but our _moral_ obligation is not to obey the laws of
government, but to obey the laws of God!
d55 2
a56 2
Zee: And if you decide the laws are unjust, then you take it upon
yourself to ignore them?
d58 3
a60 2
Mercuriou: Yes.  That's what people did in Russia, that's what people
did in Germany.  That's what people did here in 1776!
d62 4
a65 3
Zee: This isn't Russia, and this isn't Germany!  We have freedom in
this country, and respect for our laws!  Part of the law of God is
obedience to legitimate, constituted authority!
d67 2
a68 2
Mercuriou: So now we're going to 'interpret' Romans 13, eh?  What's this
distinction between legitimate and illegitimate government?
d70 1
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Zee: Legitimate government is Godly government.
d72 1
a72 1
[ Mercuriou paused. ]
d74 2
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Mercuriou: That I'll agree with.  I'll also say that legitimate
leadership, of any kind, is Godly leadership.
d77 1
a77 1
[ Zee: That is a socialist philosophy!  or  That sounds like socialism!
d79 2
a80 2
[ Mercuriou: Is it?  Isn't any form of leadership legitimate only if it
[ is inspired by God?
d82 1
a82 1
[ Now Zee paused. ]
d84 1
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Zee: I'll agree with that.
d86 1
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Mercuriou: So is capitalism Godly?
d88 1
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Zee: Capitalism is _commanded_ by God!  The civil magistrate has a
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duty!
d92 1
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Mercuriou: I'm not talking about the government!  I'm talking about
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comes to the door hungry!
d96 1
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Zee: Send him to a food bank and support it with charity.
d98 2
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Mercuriou: Why not feed him yourself?  After all, you're running a
restaurant!
d101 2
a102 2
Zee: Because we're not socialists!  You have no right to tell that
man who he has to serve!
d104 1
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Mercuriou: No, I don't have that right.  But Christ did!  He said
d106 1
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and therefore the only legitimate leadership!
d110 1
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Mercuriou: Is a government dominated by capitalists legitimate?  How
d116 1
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_impossible_!

d119 1
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Mercuriou: We're done talking!  There's nothing left to talk about!
d127 1
a128 618


Mercuriou: No capitalist government can be legitimate!  It's like
asking if a communist government or a fascist government can be
legitimate!  It's impossible!  They're _immoral_ philosophies!



Mercuriou: Now is this government legitimate or not?

Zee: America isn't perfect; we've got a million abortions every year.
Yet democracy has served us fairly well.  What's your alternative?

Mercuriou: I'd make some changes, but the form of government isn't so
important.  It's the Godliness of the leadership.

[ Zee: That sounds good, captain, but I doubt I'd like your concept of
[ Godliness.

[ Mercuriou: Well, whether we like it or not is irrelevant, isn't it?

[ Zee: I doubt I'd agree that your 'Godliness' is truly Godly.

Zee: What's your idea of 'Godliness'?

Mercuriou: Not capitalism!

Zee: Capitalism is not immoral!

Mercuriou: Capitalism is one of the most immoral philosophies ever!
_Do_for_yourself_and_let_the_'invisible_hand'_take_care_of_them_ It's
depraved, plus a repudiation of half of the Christian gospel.

Zee: Capitalism is not doing for yourself.  If people want to give to
charity, they can do so.  Capitalism is freedom.

Mercuriou: Remember the rich man and the old woman?  The rich man went
to the synagogue, gave a big donation.  The old woman gave two bits.
Christ then asked which of them went away redeemed.  Now stop for a
minute.  How would capitalists answer?  How would the majority
respond?  'Look at how much good can be done with that rich man's
generosity!  Look how many people can be helped!  He worked hard to
earn that money, now he gives it back!  You can run a soup kitchen for
a month with what he gave!  What can you do with two bits?  You can't
even buy a homeless man a cup of coffee.  The old woman might as well
have not even given anything!'  But Christ told us that the
_old_woman_ goes away redemed... why?  Because she gave _everything_!

Zee: So Christian morality is based on giving away all our worldly
possessions?

Mercuriou: No, but sometimes we must do that.  It is not _based_ on
that, though.  It's based on love, generousity being just one of its
most obvious forms.

Zee: I don't see how love requires me to hand a crackhead $20 to blow
on drugs.

Mercuriou: Right!  That's what happened to Andrew van der Bijl in
1954:

   The last round in the game was the most subtle of all.  It was
   December 30.  I had to have my application in the mail
   that day if it was to get to London on the thirty-first.

   At ten o'clock in the morning, one of the students shouted up the
   stairwell that I had a visitor.  I ran down the stairs thinking that
   this must be my delivering angel.  But when I saw who it was, my heart
   dropped.  This visitor wasn't coming to _bring_ me money, he was
   coming to _ask_ for it.  For it was Richard, a friend I had made
   months ago in the Patrick slums, a young man who came to the school
   occasionally when he just had to have cash.

   With dragging feet I went outside.  Richard stood on the white-pebble
   walkway, hands in pocket, eyes lowered.  "Andrew," he said,
   "would you be having a little extra cash?  I'm hungry."

   I laughed and told him why.  I told him about the soap and the
   razor blades, and as I spoke I saw the coin.

   It lay among the pebbles, the sun glinting off it in just such a way
   that I could see it but not Richard.  I could tell from its color that
   it was a shilling.  Instinctively I stuck out my foot and covered the
   coin with my toe.  Then as Richard and I talked, I reached down and
   picked up the coin along with a handful of pebbles.  I tossed the
   pebbles down one by one, aimlessly, until at last I had just the
   shilling in my hand.  But even as I dropped the coin into my pocket,
   the battle begun.  That coin meant I could stay in school.  I wouldn't
   be doing Richard a favor by giving it to him: he'd spend it on drink
   and be thirsty as ever in an hour.

   While I was still thinking up excellent arguments, I knew it was no
   good.  How could I judge Richard when Christ told me so clearly that I
   must not.  Furthermore, this was not the Royal Way!  What right had an
   ambassador to hold on to money when another of the King's children
   stood in front of him saying he was hungry.  I shoved my hand back
   into my pocket and drew out the silver coin.

   "Look, Richard," I said, "I do have this.  Would it help any?"

   Richard's eyes lit up.  "It would, mate."  He tossed the coin into
   the air and ran off down the hill.  With a light heart that told
   me I had done the right thing, I turned to go back inside.

   And before I reached the door the postman turned down our walk.

   In the mail of course was a letter for me.  I knew when I saw
   Greetje's handwriting that it would be from the prayer group at
   Ringers' and that there would be cash inside.  And there was.  A lot
   of money: A pound and a half - thirty shillings.  Far more than enough
   to send my letter, buy a large box of soap, treat myself to my
   favorite toothpaste - and buy Gillette Supers instead of Blues.

   The game was over.  The King had done it His way.

[BROTHER ANDREW]

Mercuriou: 1954!  1954!  Not 72 A.D.!  "Another of the King's children
stood in front of him saying he was hungry!"  _That_ should posted on
the counter of every restaurant in America, not a VISA symbol!

Zee: You can't be serious.

Mercuriou: Christ said that if a man steals our cloak, we should give
him our coat as well.  So, if a man breaks into your home, holds your
entire family up at gunpoint and takes everything of value that he
sees, you give him the keys to the car and offer to help carry the
stereo out, because it's pretty heavy.  Of course, he also told the
thief some things _he_ doesn't want to hear, either, like 'thou shall
not steal'.

Zee: So he told the thief not to steal and he told the rich man to
give his stereo to the thief, ehh?

Mercuriou: It's two seperate commands to two different people, but it
comes down to the same thing - love your neighbor.

-----

Zee: Well, the great thing about freedom is that Mr. Gates can be a
Christian if wants to, he could give away all his source code, it's up
to him!

Mercuriou: And does he want that?  Does he 'give to all who beg of him'?

Zee: Well that's his choice.  That's freedom.

Mercuriou: You're dogging the question, sir.  Every murder ever
committed in human history was perpetrated by the freedom of the
murderer!  Every rape, every theft!  Every slave was enchained by the
_freedom_ of his master!  Freedom in the absence of morality is the
single most destructive force this planet has _ever_ seen, and people
talk about freedom largely because they _don't_ want to talk about
morality!  As for Mr. Gates, we've all seen the choices he's made with
his freedom.  We've all seen America's choices.  We've all seen the
choices of the _majority_.

Mercuriou: The path to salvation is narrow, governor, and those who
find it are few.  The path to damnation is broad, and those who find
it are many.  Most people sing their hymns on Sunday and then go work
those jobs on Monday because they need the money, live in an immoral
society where they can't live without it, and have no intention of
just giving it all away to anyone who asks.


-----

I'm not going to get mad, not going to get tough, not going to give
in, I'm not going to fight back.  I'm just going to say no.

-----

How will we say no?  We will not do what we're told, and we will not
live under your rule.  We will take one state and leave.

-----

Government is about the use of force.  That's what makes government
government.  That's what sets government apart from all other
institutions.  When people talk about using government, they're really
talking about using force.  We want to use government as a last resort
because we want to use force as a last resort.

-----

The Drug War is unjust.  It is fundamentally unjust.  This is a
judgement call.  Whether someone should be locked up because they took
a gun and killed someone, or whether someone should be locked up
because they published a newspaper article critical of the government.
This is a judgement call.  There is no hard-and-fast rule that can be
applied to decide if an action merits a prison term.  There is a
question of judgement that can not be decided mechanistically.  I
believe that the Drug War is unjust.  We have thousands, perhaps
millions of people in this country, imprisoned as unjustly as if they
had been convicted of a crime they did not commit.  It is the
government (majority) that is persecuting the drug users, not the
other way around.  It is the government (majority) that is wrong.
They are the persecutors; the drug users are the victims.  It is
fundamentally unjust to lock someone in a prison cell for
growing a plant.

They broke the laws!

I fundamentally reject this concept of government.  The government is
not entitled to pass whatever laws it pleases and lock anyone up in
prison because they wouldn't do what they were told.  There is an
overriding question of justice that transcends any particular
system of government and any particular law.

We can't afford the have the police seen as persecutors.  It is
essential for public confidence that they be seen as protectors of
public safety.

Minorities have to accept that they will be ruled over by majority.
If the majority is unjust, eventually the minorities will rise up
against them.

-----

Terrorism is easy to understand.
Look how gung ho the majority is for their guns, their
second ammendment.

They only reason they oppose terrorism is because they win these
elections.  If they weren't winning the elections, if they were in the
situation that we are in, they vote and they lose, they vote and they
lose, a bunch of them would be out shooting the place up with guns.
Why?  Because they're completely disenfranchised by the political
system.  They feel they have no recourse, so they're going to lash out
in anger and rage.

-----

Why would we support democracy at all?

JS Mill - check against abuse of power

may be acceptable in a small society

1 Chronicles - if king and people chose godly behavior, any society
will work out

democracy may work as a check against govn't abuse of power

US has become the bad guy; it's because of the choices made by its
people.  The majority have made disastrous choices; they've embraced
this depraved economic philosophy of Capitalism; we've rejected the
christian gospel; we're going to have all these intellectual property
controls; we're going to build this technology so that its all locked
down and controlled, and we're going to use that control to dominate
the world globally - Globalization, which basically comes down to
global capitalism.  We back this up with a tyrannical political
philosophy that somehow democracy justifies capitalism.  If the
majority want capitalism, that justifies capitalism.  In fact, it's
the other way around - capitalism condemns democracy.  We've
benn very heavy handed about.  Creeping militarism.  "These
13 states should be independent and free" to Manifest Destiny
to the Monroe Doctrine to global containment and now we're
on to global preemption.

When did the U.S. become the bad guy?  Maybe it's always been.  In
recent years, 1980 - Reagan sold this country on a nightmare and did
it with a laugh.  He was the last president that people really
listened to; all the men who have come since him have been
placeholders.  Last man to really influence how the country thought
about itself, and it was not a positive influence.

-----

The invasions of Afganistan and Iraq were justified in the same way as
9/11.  Which is to say, there was a justification, in our case 9/11
itself, in bin Laden's case U.S. support for Israel and our Arab
allies, but the response, in both cases, was all out of any proportion
to the provocation.

[MORE HERE - explain why a tribunal would have appropriate]

George Bush was everyman.  His invasions were wildly popular among
Americans; just look at the polls.  And he _believed_ in democracy.
He really thought that the solution to these problems was to roll in
there with the U.S. military, overthrow these governments, install
democracy, pack up and leave.  Instead, he got exactly what you can
expect when one country invades, conquers, and imposes its form of
government on another country - civil war.

...But he wanted democracy!  He wanted freedom!

He didn't understand democracy.  He did not understand that democracy
requires at least the passive support of the minorities.  [MORE HERE]

-----


-----

"Well, there's lot of things taught in the Bible.  The Bible
teaches us to stone prostitutes to death, for example, but..."



nothing that teaches democracy as some holy philosophy


===================




government is inspired by God?

"A legitimate government is one that rules with the support of its people."

"You find that in the Bible?  That a government inspired by God is one
that rules with the support of its people?"

Zee flared up.  "Look, Dr. Yeats, if you can't tell the difference
between a democratically elected government and a dictatorship, then I
guess you belong on that ship of theives with their rebel capitan!"



"Where do you find that in the Gospel, governor, I'd really like to
know!"

"So there's nothing wrong with murder?!"

"Murder is against the laws of God; _thou_shall_not_kill_!"

"So the only time we have to obey the law is when it's in accord with
our ideas of what God wants?"

"Governor, the _only_ law we _have_ to obey is the _law_of_God_!"

Zee paused and considered this.

"So all these laws we have, people should just pick and choose
whenever they want to obey or not to obey them?"

"People should concern themselves first and foremost with the laws
of God!  The laws of man are secondary!"

"Well, then we'd just have anarchy!  I could just say that my religion
teaches human sacrifice, that I think that's the will of God, right?"

"You can believe whatever you want.  You can believe the world is
flat, but that doesn't change the fact that it's round.  But I'll go
so far as to say that if you truly believed that human sacrifice was
ordained by God, then you'd have a moral obligation to practice it
irregardless of the laws of men!  Which is why the Bible is so
important!  So we can clearly know that human sacrifice is _not_
ordained by God!"

"So let's see, you think men are only obligated to obey the laws of
God, and yet you don't believe the Bible is literally true, so how are
we supposed to determine the law of God?"

"It's not easy.  In fact, I think it's about the hardest thing to do
in life.  You start by making a conscience decision to seek the will
of God, to try and make every decision in your life, big and small,
based not on what you want, but on what God wants, you pray, you
worship, you study the Bible, especially the Gospels, and then you do
the best you can."

"And if that's in conflict with our laws, you just ignore the laws,
then?"

"I think it's more a case of looking somberly at the laws, and looking
somberly at the men who make the laws, and coming to a conclusion that
the men are self-serving materialists far more concerned with their
economic and political theories of capitalism and democracy that with
the Christian gospel, and that most of their laws are convoluted,
misguided, and unjust."

"So our laws are convoluted, misguided, and unjust?"

"Well, look at them.  Go into any law library and ask to see the law.
Just the Code of Federal Regulations alone takes up entire shelfs.
It's tens of thousands of pages of inscrutable legalize.  And people
say that 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'; I personally think it's
a great excuse - who understands all these laws?  Then compare it with
the laws of God - simple things like "don't kill", "don't steal",
"don't lie", "give to all", "do no violence to any man".  That's what
I mean by convulted.  As for misguided, well, look at how much of it
is to somehow 'regulate' people's greed - this capitalist democratic
idea that everyone should just be in it for themselves and we use the
law to build some kind of a 'playing field'.  And unjust!  You've got
to be kidding me!  One guy cuts a deal to testify against his friends
and gets four months; another guy refuses to snitch and it's a ten
year sentence!  You call that justice?"  [Jamal Lewis]





Ecks: Why don't you answer my question?

Mercuriou: Why don't you answer mine?  Smith is your patron saint,
he's in the 'Gospel of Capitalism', isn't he? Christ said 'give to all
those who beg of you', and 'if a man steals your coat, give him your
cloak as well'.  Now if this is how we are to treat a thief, a _thief_
mind you, then how should we treat people who just ask politely?

Ecks: How convenient you bring up your own crime!





Mercurio: First, I'm going to close the prisons and release the
prisoners.  Whatever problems we have in our society, we're not going
to deal with them by finding someone to blame and throwing them in a
jail cell.  And I intend to open the borders.  Freedom will be for
anyone who wants to come to Hawaii, not just for those with a U.S.
passport in their pockets.  In short, it's not just going to be
'freedom for us'; it's going to be freedom for everyone.

Wye: So some thug pulls a gun and kills someone, you're just going to
let them walk free.

Mercurio: That's right.

Wye: I don't know how many people are going to support that, captain.

Mercurio: Well, the alternative is a prison state, senator.  You've
got me convinced that if you let people imprison the most violent
criminal, you're next, because the majority will never stop screaming
for tougher laws and more jail cells.

Andrea: Letting murderers walk free is not going to fix our problems.
It is essential that violence be addressed through ministry, and not
simply ignored.  I don't advocate a state church, but it is essential
that religion and spirituality be an integral part of daily life.
Furthermore, a broad-based rejection of capitalism is essential,
because when people grow up in a society who leaders are driven by
self-interest, it's easy for them to turn lawless.  On the other hand,
people are unlikely to steal from a baker who has a free loaf of bread
for them whenever they are hungry.


Wye: You can make all this nice talk about everyone should be good and
caring to each other, but the fact is that there are always people who
will abuse freedom, and for them we need laws.  Take the environment,
for example.  What are you going do when somebody dumps their garbage
into the river?

Andrea: Well, we'll try very hard to ensure that people don't have much
motivation to dump their garbage in the river.  We're not going to
charge them to rent a truck and then charge them again when they get
to the dump.  We'll try to be patient and tolerant with malefactors.
And, finally, when our patience runs out, we'll have to find some kind
of legal sanction to impose against them.  But you do this backwards.
With your constant nickle-and-diming [CA], you incentivize people to
cut corners to save money, and then figure that the only way to
protect the environment is a bunch of government regulations.



Wye: We're not going to let these sexual predators walk free to molest
our children!

Mercuriou: How many lives have _you_ destroyed!?  How many people have
you disappeared into your prisons for fear of what they haven't done!?
You!  _You_ are the predator!  You!  You and your _government_!

Zee: So I understand that now you're advocating freedom for murderers!

Andrea: Yes, I am.  Christ set this example himself.  He walked to
his death and with his dying breath forgave his murderers.

Zee: This isn't Christianity!  Christians are decent, law-abiding
citizens, not a bunch of thieves and murderers and dope heads!

Andrea: Don't have sex, don't do drugs, don't drink alcohol, and give
me ten percent of all your money, ehh?

Zee: Christians are obedient to authority, that is made clear in
Romans 13: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities.
For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have
been instituted by God."

Andrea: Romans contains the teaching of Paul, and Paul was not Christ.
Are we to believe that communist authority was from God, or that Adolf
Hitler was instituted by God?  The United States Congress once passed
a Fugitive Slave Act.  Would you have us believe that Christians in
that day were under a moral duty to God to return slaves to their
owners?  We are surrounded in this world by authority that is clearly
not from God.  I prefer to look to First Samuel 12, where the prophet
says "If you will fear the LORD, and serve him, and obey his voice,
and not rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall both you
and also the king that reigns over you continue following the LORD
your God... But if you shall still do wickedly, you shall be consumed,
both you and your king."

Zee: We don't have a king!

Andrea: Then you shall be consumed, both you and your democracy!  The
point isn't the method of government, it is a warning against the
wicked leadership which abounds in this world!  And a far more
accurate assessment it is than the truckling Romans 13!

Zee: Wicked leadership!  You mean the hop heads and thieves you've
associated yourself with!

Mercuriou: How about this, governor... forget your elections!  I'll
just overthrow your government!  Then you can climb your pulpit and
preach about how I'm the God-constituted authority and now everyone
has to do what I say!

[ Andrea: I'll take hop heads any day over a bunch of militants who think ]
[ that 'turning the other cheek' applies to everyone but them! ]

Zee: You don't want _any_ laws!  You want anarchy!

Andrea: It comes back to First Samuel 12 - people have to choose to
serve the Lord, otherwise it _is_ anarchy!

Zee: And what about people who don't choose to serve the Lord!
Murderers and thieves, rapists and perverts!  For them we have to have
laws!  What about the victims of these Godless monsters?  Do we just
sacrifice them on the alter of your supposed piety?

Andrea: We are the victims, governor, and yes, we choose to accept our
fate.  We choose to love our enemies and pray for our murderers.  For
those who aren't willing to accept that fate, they have the freedom to
live under any other system of government they please - yours, for
example.

[ Zee: How?  You're determined to make your own government! ]

Mercuriou: Genuine political freedom comes not from a ballot box but
from the freedom to travel, coupled with a variety among nations.  If
people are so terrified of these murderers and rapists that they want
your prison state, they can have it - it's just an airplane ride away!

Zee: So the people who don't agree with you, you throw out!

Mercuriou: Well, that's the freedom you've handed us, right?  Once
we're in charge, the people who don't like it can "get the hell out!"
They can "love it or leave it!"  They can "stick an egg in their shoe
and beat it!"


Zee: See, your problem is that you don't believe in democracy!  You
don't think this country can change!  But I've seen it change!  I've
seen the civil rights movement!  If you believed in this country, then
you would lead it to change instead of destroying it!

Mercuriou: Then change!  I'm not stopping you, in fact, I'd love to
see this country change!  But I've seen the choices that its people
have made and the kind of leaders they've chosen!  I'm not interested
in some half-hearted change watered down and opposed every step of the
way by special interests!  I'm not going to keep waiting for the
election, and then the next election, and the election after that!
And I _don't_ see, at all, how I'm "destroying" this country.  Why
does everyone have to move together in lock step?  Why can't one group
go one way, and another group another?  Why should we sacrifice
freedom for the sake of unity?

Zee: The country is at war!  We need unity, not division!

Mercuriou: The country is always at war!  It's invaded and conquered
four other nations just in my lifetime!

Zee: Four countries!  What four countries?

Mercuriou: Granada, Panama, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Zee: (laughing) Granada...

Mercuriou: Yes, Granada.  We steamrolled over some little nothing
country in a one-day war, but it was still the armed conquest of a
sovereign nation.  And Panama was conquered by the
_very_same_president_ that two years later stood up and told the world
that we were in Kuwait to stop a large country from pushing around a
small one!

Zee: I think the people of Panama have a different version of that
"conquest" - they were glad to get rid of Noriega!

Mercuriou: Right - there are two different versions of international
law, one for democracy, and one for everyone else.  If you're not a
democracy, you basically have no rights.  You can be conquered by an
overwhelmingly more powerful neighbor, and it's a "liberation".  I
don't know why we even bother with international law.  We just do
whatever seems expedient at the moment.

Mercuriou: You talk about unity, but freedom and unity are often opposing
interests.  If I want to walk left and you want to walk right, then
one of us has to sacrifice our freedom to achieve unity.  For me,
the bottom line is that I do not support the leadership of this
country, and therefore I am not willing to sacrifice my freedom
for the sake of unity.



========


Mercuriou: Christ taught us to 'give to all those who beg of us', and
not just when we feel like it.  There are plenty of people out there
who stand behind a counter and won't lift a finger for anyone unless
they're being handed a credit card.  You can call it 'freedom' or
anything else you please.  Remember the rich man and the old woman!  I
call it capitalism and I call it immoral!



========

"This isn't Christianity!  Christianity is about redemption through
faith.  You're redeemed through faith, not through your deeds!"

"If that's so, then why does Jesus spend so much time talking about
how we live in this world?  Why did he bother to say 'turn the other
cheek' and 'give to all those who beg of you' and 'if a man steals
your cloak, give him your cloak as well'?  Yes, he talks about faith,
but he talks about deeds, too, and if deeds aren't important, why does
he spend so much time discussing them?"
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Mercuriou: I take the Bible seriously, not literally.  Paul was the
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Yates: Letting murderers walk free is not going to fix our problems.
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Yates: Well, we'll try very hard to ensure that people don't have much
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Yates: Yes, I am.  Christ set this example himself.  He walked to
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Yates: We are the victims, governor, and yes, we choose to accept our
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DOESN'T REQUIRE OBEDIENCE TO THE GOVERNMENT
d16 1
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Mercuriou: Can you show me where that is taught by Christ?
d18 1
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Zee: Romans 13, it's taught in Romans 13, Captain:
d29 2
a30 2
Zee: The Bible is the inspired word of God.  If you don't believe
that, you're no Christian!
d32 6
a37 7
Mercuriou: I take the Bible seriously, not literally.  Paul is not
Christ. He was the greatest misionary in the history of the church,
but he was not Christ.  He knew God, but he didn't come back from the
dead.  His teachings don't have the same weight, and I don't buy
Romans 13.  Jews in Nazi Germany had a moral obligation to wear yellow
stars?  Because it was the law?  Because their leaders were
established by God?"
d42 6
a47 1
obligation to obey the laws depended on the form of government!
d49 2
a50 2
Zee paused for a moment and collected his thoughts.  What had
happened?  He hadn't expected Andrea Yeats.
d52 1
a52 1
Zee: We have a moral obligation to obey a legitimate government.
d54 2
a55 2
Mercuriou: Do you find that somewhere in the Bible, this distinction
between legitimate and illegitimate government?
d57 2
a58 1
Zee: Absolutely.  Legitimate government is government inspired by God.
d60 2
a61 1
Mercuriou paused.
d63 3
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Mercuriou: That I'll agree with.  I'll even extend it to say that
legitimate leadership of any kind is that inspired by God.
d67 2
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Zee: That is a socialist philosophy!
d70 1
a70 2
Mercuriou: Is it?  Isn't any form of leadership legitimate only if it
is inspired by God?
d72 11
a82 1
Now Zee paused.
d86 329
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Mercuriou: Furthermore, we have discuss specific policies, because the
same government that imprisons the thief can whip the slave!  So this
drug war, it is Godly?
d416 2
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Zee: Absolutely!  The government has the right, nay the obligation, to
protect the health and welfare of its citizens.
d419 1
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ASK ABOUT DRUG WAR.  ZEE SAYS IT'S IN LINE WITH GOD.
a420 1
Mercuriou: And capitalism?  Is it Godly?
d422 1
a422 3
Zee: It's _commanded_ by God!  The civil magistrate has a God-given
duty as a minister of justice, and God's ministers are not to exceed
their duties!
d424 2
a425 3
Mercuriou: I'm not talking about the government!  I'm asking you if
it's Godly to deny a man food if he comes to the door of your
restaurant!
a426 2
Zee: I'd suggest directing him to the nearest food bank or homeless
shelter, and supporting those organizations with your charity.
a427 2
Mercuriou: Why not simply feed him yourself?  After all, you're
running a restaurant!
d429 1
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ASK ABOUT CAPITALISM.  ZEE SAYS IT'S COMMANDED BY GOD.
d432 1
a432 2
Now is this government legitimate or
not?
a433 1
Zee: America isn't perfect.  We've got a million abortions every year.
a447 13
"Governor, I most certainly can tell the difference, but you're
evading the question about Biblical teaching.  There is absolutely
nothing in Christ's teachings which tell us we have some moral
obligation to obey every law promulgated by any government, nothing
that teaches democracy as some holy philosophy, in fact, I think one
of the main themes of _Revelation_ is the presence in this world of
governments that are _not_ ordained by God, and if you take Paul's
philosophy in Romans at face value, it tells us that people in Russian
had a moral obligation to God not to have shortwave radios because
that was the law of the government!"

"So, what, you're trying to tell us that all government is evil, that
we should have anarchy, that people should do whatever they please?"
a448 4
"No, I'm just pointing our that our _moral_ obligation is not to obey
the laws of government, but to obey the laws of God!"

"And part of the laws of God is obedience to constituted authority!"
a518 9
"And if you decide the laws are unjust, then you just take it
upon yourself to ignore them?"

"Well, basically, yes.  That's what people did in Russia, that's
what people did in Germany."

"This isn't Russia, and this isn't Germany!  We have freedom in this
country, and respect for our laws!"

a583 10
Mercuriou: Let me add something - free technology isn't just about
free software, it's about going green, too.  What happens when one of
your capitalist gizmos breaks?  You toss it into the nearest landfill.
Now if the design is open, that device can be repaired.  The
capitalists don't want this.  They don't want technology that can be
repaired.  They want throw-away technology.  Instead of repairing
these devices, they want you to buy a new one.  Going green doesn't
have to be mandated carbon scrubbers on smoke-stacks.  It's building
clean, open, sustainable technology that everyone can build, improve,
and repair.
d724 1
a724 248
Zee: Capitalism is not immoral!

Mercuriou: Governor, capitalism is one of the most immoral
philosophies that have ever been proposed for men to live their lives.
_You_do_for__yourself_and_let_this_'invisible_hand'_take_care_of_'society'._
It's depraved, not to mention a solid rejection of half the Christian
gospel.

Zee: Capitalism is not about doing for yourself.  If people want to
give to a charity, they are more than welcome to do so.  Capitalism is
about freedom.  It's about giving people the freedom to decide what to
do with their own wealth.

Mercuriou: Govenor, if that's what you want to believe, fine.  But
Christ taught us to 'give to all those who beg of us', and not just
when we feel like it.  There are plenty of people out there who stand
behind a counter and won't lift a finger for anyone unless they're
being handed a credit card.  You can call it 'freedom' or anything
else you please.  I call it capitalism and it is immoral.

Mercuriou: Remember the story of the rich man and the old woman?  The
rich man went to the synagogue, gave a big donation.  The old woman
gave two bits.  Christ then asked which of them went away redeemed.
Now let's stop for a minute and think about this.  How would
capitalists answer?  How would the majority respond?  They would say,
'Look at how much good can be done with that rich man's generosity!
Look how many people can be helped!  He worked hard to earn that
money, now he gives it back!  You can run a soup kitchen for a month
with what he gave!  What can you do with two bits?  You can't even buy
a homeless man a cup of coffee.  The old woman might as well have not
even given anything!'  But what did Christ say?  He tells us the old
woman goes away redemed because she gave _everything_ she's got!  It
was the totality of her generosity that is significant to God, not its
quantity.  So if capitalists would live as Christ taught us, they
would do as the old woman did and give _all_that_they_have_!

Zee: So what are you trying to say?  That Christian morality is based
on giving away all our worldly possessions?

...
Mercuriou: No, but sometimes we must do that.  It is not _based_ on
that, though.  It's based on love, generousity being just one of its
most obvious forms.
...

Zee: Love requires us to hold back from those other people.  If we
would hand a bum $20, he'd probably just go blow it on drugs.

Mercuriou: Right!  That's what happened to Andrew van der Bijl in
1954:

   The last round in the game was the most subtle of all.  It was
   December 30.  I had to have my application in the mail
   that day if it was to get to London on the thirty-first.

   At ten o'clock in the morning, one of the students shouted up the
   stairwell that I had a visitor.  I ran down the stairs thinking that
   this must be my delivering angel.  But when I saw who it was, my heart
   dropped.  This visitor wasn't coming to _bring_ me money, he was
   coming to _ask_ for it.  For it was Richard, a friend I had made
   months ago in the Patrick slums, a young man who came to the school
   occasionally when he just had to have cash.

   With dragging feet I went outside.  Richard stood on the white-pebble
   walkway, hands in pocket, eyes lowered.  "Andrew," he said,
   "would you be having a little extra cash?  I'm hungry."

   I laughed and told him why.  I told him about the soap and the
   razor blades, and as I spoke I saw the coin.

   It lay among the pebbles, the sun glinting off it in just such a way
   that I could see it but not Richard.  I could tell from its color that
   it was a shilling.  Instinctively I stuck out my foot and covered the
   coin with my toe.  Then as Richard and I talked, I reached down and
   picked up the coin along with a handful of pebbles.  I tossed the
   pebbles down one by one, aimlessly, until at last I had just the
   shilling in my hand.  But even as I dropped the coin into my pocket,
   the battle begun.  That coin meant I could stay in school.  I wouldn't
   be doing Richard a favor by giving it to him: he'd spend it on drink
   and be thirsty as ever in an hour.

   While I was still thinking up excellent arguments, I knew it was no
   good.  How could I judge Richard when Christ told me so clearly that I
   must not.  Furthermore, this was not the Royal Way!  What right had an
   ambassador to hold on to money when another of the King's children
   stood in front of him saying he was hungry.  I shoved my hand back
   into my pocket and drew out the silver coin.

   "Look, Richard," I said, "I do have this.  Would it help any?"

   Richard's eyes lit up.  "It would, mate."  He tossed the coin into
   the air and ran off down the hill.  With a light heart that told
   me I had done the right thing, I turned to go back inside.

   And before I reached the door the postman turned down our walk.

   In the mail of course was a letter for me.  I knew when I saw
   Greetje's handwriting that it would be from the prayer group at
   Ringers' and that there would be cash inside.  And there was.  A lot
   of money: A pound and a half - thirty shillings.  Far more than enough
   to send my letter, buy a large box of soap, treat myself to my
   favorite toothpast - and buy Gillette Supers instead of Blues.

   The game was over.  The King had done it His way.

[BROTHER ANDREW]

Zee: That's not the Bible.  [What's wrong, can't find a Bible lession
so you resort to some other book?] That's some other book.

Mercuriou: It sure is!  God didn't stop guiding us 2000 years ago!

[pause]


Mercuriou: Christ told us that if a man steals our cloak, we should
give him our coat as well.  Now, to put that in a modern context, if a
man breaks into your home, holds your entire family up at gunpoint and
takes everything of value that he sees, you give him the keys to the
car and offer to help carry the stereo out, because it's pretty
heavy.

Zee: You can't be serious.

Mercuriou: I'm completely serious, and so was Christ.  Of course, he
also told the thief some things he doesn't want to hear, either, like
'thou shall not steal'.

Zee: So he told the thief not to steal and he told the rich man to
give his stereo to the thief, ehh?  A little self-contradictory, isn't
it?

Mercuriou: No.  It's two seperate instructions, for two different
people, but it comes down to the same commandment - love your
neighbor.  The thief is told not to steal, for love of the rich man,
and the rich man is told to give up his possessions, for love of the
thief.  Of course, the Christian isn't in either situation - he's not
going to steal, and all the thief needs to do is ask.  So if Mr. Gates
lived this way, all we'd have to do to get the source code for Windows
would be to ask.  He could have been a Christian, instead he's decided
to be a philanthroper.

Zee: Well, the great thing about freedom is that Mr. Gates can be a
Christian if wants to, he could give away all his source code, it's up
to him!

Mercuriou: And does he want that?  Does he 'give to all who beg of him'?

Zee: Well that's his choice.  That's freedom.

Mercuriou: You're dogging the question, sir.  Every murder ever
committed in human history was perpetrated by the freedom of the
murderer!  Every rape, every theft!  Every slave was enchained by the
_freedom_ of his master!  Freedom in the absence of morality is the
single most destructive force this planet has _ever_ seen, and people
talk about freedom largely because they _don't_ want to talk about
morality!  As for Mr. Gates, we've all seen the choices he's made with
his freedom.  We've all seen America's choices.  We've all seen the
choices of the _majority_.

Mercuriou: The path to salvation is narrow, governor, and those who
find it are few.  The path to damnation is broad, and those who find
it are many.  Most people sing their hymns on Sunday and then go work
those jobs on Monday because they need the money, live in an immoral
society where they can't live without it, and have no intention of
just giving it all away to anyone who asks.


------
------

Zee: There's a supreme court case on secession - Texas vs. fff.

Is our position that Lituania, in fact, needed permission from the
Soviet Union to leave?  Or that the United States is special?  Or that
each nation may set up its internal decrees as it sees fit, and we see
fit to outlaw secession?

Can't we just admit that Lincoln was wrong.  He should have let the
south go.

-----

-----

I'm not going to get mad, not going to get tough, not going to give
in, I'm not going to fight back.  I'm just going to say no.

-----

How will we say no?  We will not do what we're told, and we will not
live under your rule.  We will take one state and leave.

-----

Government is about the use of force.  That's what makes government
government.  That's what sets government apart from all other
institutions.  When people talk about using government, they're really
talking about using force.  We want to use government as a last resort
because we want to use force as a last resort.

-----

The Drug War is unjust.  It is fundamentally unjust.  This is a
judgement call.  Whether someone should be locked up because they took
a gun and killed someone, or whether someone should be locked up
because they published a newspaper article critical of the government.
This is a judgement call.  There is no hard-and-fast rule that can be
applied to decide if an action merits a prison term.  There is a
question of judgement that can not be decided mechanistically.  I
believe that the Drug War is unjust.  We have thousands, perhaps
millions of people in this country, imprisoned as unjustly as if they
had been convicted of a crime they did not commit.  It is the
government (majority) that is persecuting the drug users, not the
other way around.  It is the government (majority) that is wrong.
They are the persecutors; the drug users are the victims.  It is
fundamentally unjust to lock someone in a prison cell for
growing a plant.

They broke the laws!

I fundamentally reject this concept of government.  The government is
not entitled to pass whatever laws it pleases and lock anyone up in
prison because they wouldn't do what they were told.  There is an
overriding question of justice that transcends any particular
system of government and any particular law.

We can't afford the have the police seen as persecutors.  It is
essential for public confidence that they be seen as protectors of
public safety.

Minorities have to accept that they will be ruled over by majority.
If the majority is unjust, eventually the minorities will rise up
against them.

-----

Terrorism is easy to understand.
Look how gung ho the majority is for their guns, their
second ammendment.

They only reason they oppose terrorism is because they win these
elections.  If they weren't winning the elections, if they were in the
situation that we are in, they vote and they lose, they vote and they
lose, a bunch of them would be out shooting the place up with guns.
Why?  Because they're completely disenfranchised by the political
system.  They feel they have no recourse, so they're going to lash out
in anger and rage.
a725 1
-----
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Why would we support democracy at all?
a733 1
JS Mill - check against abuse of power
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may be acceptable in a small society

1 Chronicles - if king and people chose godly behavior, any society
will work out

democracy may work as a check against govn't abuse of power

US has become the bad guy; it's because of the choices made by its
people.  The majority have made disastrous choices; they've embraced
this depraved economic philosophy of Capitalism; we've rejected the
christian gospel; we're going to have all these intellectual property
controls; we're going to build this technology so that its all locked
down and controlled, and we're going to use that control to dominate
the world globally - Globalization, which basically comes down to
global capitalism.  We back this up with a tyrannical political
philosophy that somehow democracy justifies capitalism.  If the
majority want capitalism, that justifies capitalism.  In fact, it's
the other way around - capitalism condemns democracy.  We've
benn very heavy handed about.  Creeping militarism.  "These
13 states should be independent and free" to Manifest Destiny
to the Monroe Doctrine to global containment and now we're
on to global preemption.

When did the U.S. become the bad guy?  Maybe it's always been.  In
recent years, 1980 - Reagan sold this country on a nightmare and did
it with a laugh.  He was the last president that people really
listened to; all the men who have come since him have been
placeholders.  Last man to really influence how the country thought
about itself, and it was not a positive influence.

-----

The invasions of Afganistan and Iraq were justified in the same way as
9/11.  Which is to say, there was a justification, in our case 9/11
itself, in bin Laden's case U.S. support for Israel and our Arab
allies, but the response, in both cases, was all out of any proportion
to the provocation.

[MORE HERE - explain why a tribunal would have appropriate]

George Bush was everyman.  His invasions were wildly popular among
Americans; just look at the polls.  And he _believed_ in democracy.
He really thought that the solution to these problems was to roll in
there with the U.S. military, overthrow these governments, install
democracy, pack up and leave.  Instead, he got exactly what you can
expect when one country invades, conquers, and imposes its form of
government on another country - civil war.

...But he wanted democracy!  He wanted freedom!

He didn't understand democracy.  He did not understand that democracy
requires at least the passive support of the minorities.  [MORE HERE]

-----

Lincoln was the greatest man in American history but the worst president.
Period.  The country can not afford another Lincoln administration.

What if Gorbachev had adopted the precedent of Lincoln?
What if Gorbachev had said that communism isn't the issue, that
the union had to be preserved at all costs and launched Russia
into a civil war in 1991.

What did Lincoln say?  That if he could preserve the union by
freeing all of the slaves, he would, and that if he could preserve
the union by freeing none of the slaves, he would.  What if Gorbachev
had said that if he could preserve the union by abolishing the communist
party he would, that if he could preserve the union by preserving
the communist party he would, but he would preserve the union
at any cost, if necessary through an absolute bloodbath.

Slavery had to be stopped!

What if Eisenhower or Kennedy had say "communism had to be stopped"?
And New York, and Los Angeles, and Washington were also smoldering
radioactive ruins, and there would be people to this day saying that
it was all worth it because communism had to be stopped.

Lincoln made the wrong decision.  He was a bit like George W. Bush.
He made a single bad decision, early on in his presidency, and
it affected everything that came after.

-----

We'll walk into your hail of gunfire.  I see a hundred men marching,
and we'll take it, we'll take it like the Marines on Iwa Jima.
We'll take your fire, and we'll keep coming.  We'll overrun
your position, and what will you do then?  I see a masacre.
I see a hundred men marching forwards and only twenty
marching on.  I see freedom's (blood soaked) banner waving in the wind.

-----

"Well, there's lot of things taught in the Bible.  The Bible
teaches us to stone prostitutes to death, for example, but..."
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Zee: "Paul teaches very clearly in Romans that government authority is
consituted by God and that we have a moral duty to obey that
authority."
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"Can you show me where that is taught by Christ?"
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"It's taught in the Bible, Dr. Yeats, it's taught in the Bible."
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"Well, there's lot of things taught in the Bible.  The Bible
teaches us to stone prostitutes to death, for example, but
we all know what Jesus had to say about that.  So that's..."
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Zee cut her off.  "So you don't believe in the Bible?"
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Andrea took a deep breath.  "I don't believe it's word-for-word
exact."
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"Well, Dr. Yeats, I do believe in the Bible.  I believe it's the
inspired word of God, every bit of it.  Maybe that's why you find
yourself mixed up with these people; maybe you need to read that Bible
of yours and take it a little more seriously."
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Andrea gritted her teeth, ignored the personal slight, and went on.
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"I do take the Bible seriously, governor, but I don't believe it's
word-for-word accurate..."
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"The Bible is the Inspired Word Of God!"
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Mercuriou: "Is this guy a governor or a preacher?"
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"OK, well maybe you can clear up some simple points for me.  Like how
did Judas die?"
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"I really don't this is relevent..."
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"No, how did Judas die?  Can you tell me?"
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Zee took a deep breath before answering.  "Judas hung himself from
a tree, consumed with the guilt of having betrayed Christ."
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"But that's now what the Bible says!  At least that not what the Bible
says in Acts!  In _Matthew_ we're told Judas hung himself.  In _Acts_
we're told he bought a field with the silver he had been paid and died
after falling down a ravine in that field.  Now, Governor, how can one
man die two different ways?"
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Zee remained silent.  Andrea went on.
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"Or perhaps you can tell me what happened to Christ after his baptism
by John?  In _Matthew_ we're told he went to wilderness for forty days
where he was tempted by the devil.  In _John_ we're told that the
_next_day_ he began calling his disciples - no wilderness trip, no
forty days.  So what happened that days after his baptism, Governor,
did he head for the wilderness or start his ministry?"
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"So what are you trying to say, Doctor, that we can't beleive the Bible?"
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"No, I've just pointing out some of it's many internal
inconsistencies.  There's no way it can be word-for-word exact.  I've
come to see it as a historial document, and like many other historical
documents flawed and inaccurate, but one that deals with some of the
critical events of human history - the life, ministry, death, and
resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.  Asking if any particular event
happened just the way it's related is like asking if Julius Cesear
actually uttered the words "the die is cast" as he crossed the River
Rubicon.  Who knows?  Yet we can be fairly certain that was a man
named Julius Cesear and that he did most of the things attributed to
him.  It's like that with the Bible - you can't just pick out some
verse and insist that it's exactly infallible; you have to evaluate it
with a critical eye."
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"So now we come back to Paul, and we note first that he's not Christ,
he's a great Christian leader, possible the greatest misionary in the
history of the church, but he's not Christ.  He didn't come back from
the dead.  He didn't know God.  His teaching doesn't have the same
weight.  And I think we need to be somewhat critical of his philosophy
that government leaders are placed into authority by God.  So people
who lived in the Soviet Union had a moral obligation not to possess
shortwave radios?  Because it was against the law?  Because their
leaders were consistuted by God?"
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"First of all, a communist dictatorship..."
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Now it was Andrea's turn to interrupt.
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"Oh, no, he didn't say that.  He didn't say that our obligation to
obey the laws depended on whether it was a dictatorship or a
democracy!"
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In the television studio on Earth, Zee paused for a moment and
collected his thoughts.  Having watched the earlier interviews, he had
expected Mercuriou to be a push-over.  He hadn't expected Andrea Yeats.
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"We have a moral obligation to obey the laws of a legitimate government."
a100 2
"Do you find that somewhere in the Bible, that distinction between
legitimate and illegitimate government?"
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"Absolutely.  Legitimate government is government inspired by God."
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"I'll agree with that.  But how do we decide if a particular
government is inspired by God?"
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Wye: (smillaughing) We have a long-standing principle, captain, that
states are not allowed to secede from the Union.

Mercurio: Oh, that won't be a problem.  We'll just wave a bunch
of orange flags around in the air.  You'll let us go.

Wye: (laughing) This isn't a [communist] dictatorship, captain.  We
live in a nation of laws.  You are not going to just make up rules to
interpret the election results however you see fit.

Mercurio: How are you going to stop me?  You gonna to crack down?  You
gonna get tough?

Wye: We will enforce our laws, captain, we will enforce our laws.
You're not the only criminal in this country.  Also, I'd like to know
what's going to be so different once you achieve this great goal of
throwing off our hated government.
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Mercuriou: No, but that's a common misconception, because Christian
morality often _does_ require us to give away all our worldly
possessions.  It is not _based_ on that, though.  It's based on love -
unconditional love, not only for God, but all of mankind as well.
Often that involves generousity, but what's more important is how you
treat other people; generousity is just one of the most obvious
manifestations of that.
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